Posts by Reefton Jack

47

Former Jehovahs WitnessAre Hypocrites

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

former jehovahs witnessare hypocritesit amazes me how these people who once donned three-piece suits .

with book, bag and bible in hand are now singing the blues.

these former jehovahs witnesses, who would annoy a man and his.

Reefton Jack

Whenever I hear the accusation "Hypocrite" waved around, I automatically also hear warning bells sounded. In my experience, the ones always making the loudest use of that term have also proven to be the worst offenders: - In other words, it tells you more about the accuser than those being accused. (Like it takes one to be able to recognise one!) Jack. PS: I have never in my life worn a three piece suit, either!

35

Where do you go for your spiritual needs?

by Blindbutnowisee in

jw
friends

i never was baptize as a jw.

i use to study with them for years, i even went as for as becoming a unbaptize publisher.

i gave up being a publisher because i did not feel genuine in my efforts to preach.

Reefton Jack

Interesting to hear of others feelings on this matter.
I find myself in full agreement with those who have no "Spiritual Need"
- and who consequently do not need to go to anywhere to have this need met!

The WTS's line is that all people have this inbuilt "need" for spirituality:
- and that they (and ONLY they) are capable of satisfying it.

During the 14 years since I broke with the JWs, I have always tried to keep an open mind on this - and other such matters.

However, I have yet to experience anything of this "Spiritual Need" that they kept telling me I have!

Jack

7

Religion Makes Good Men Evil?

by zack in

i watched chris hitchens last night on a show with tim russert.

while i disagree strongly with most of what hitchens says, he did say.

one thing that struck me as profound.

Reefton Jack

Blondie raises an interesting question:
- Does Religion make Good Men (or Women) Evil, or does it attract people who were Evil in the first place?

i.e. Does it hold a particular attraction for that small minority of the population that is classified as
"Sociopathic"?
( According to the American Psychiatric Association's "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders" 1987, Anti-Social Personality Disorder affects approximately 3 per cent of the population ).

This could well be the case - religion may form a special attraction to some who have sociopathic tendencies.
However, the scale of involvement in acts of religiously-inspired (or politically inspired) cruetly would tend to suggest that something else is at work here, as well :
- More than a 3 percent minority can be induced to participate in cruel, even brutal, activities.
- Providing that these acts of cruelty have the "Sanction" of The Group.
( Whether that Group be a religious one or a political one).

7

Religion Makes Good Men Evil?

by zack in

i watched chris hitchens last night on a show with tim russert.

while i disagree strongly with most of what hitchens says, he did say.

one thing that struck me as profound.

Reefton Jack

When I was "coming into the Truth", and saw it as my God-given duty to convert anyone who would listen, my father tried to warn me that there are two things best not talked about:
- Religion and Politics.

He may well have had a point!
Hitchens is quite correct in his observations:
- Using religion as their justification, otherwise decent people are capable of carrying out cruelty;
even extreme cruelty.

Before, though, we try and isolate isolate religion in the "Sin Bin", the same would have to be said of politics:
- it, too, is capable of inspiring otherwise decent people into carrying out acts of brutality.
eg. Nazi rule in Germany, Communist rule in the former USSR, and many other cases too numerous to mention.

The human creature being what we are, it is all too easy to become fanatical about either matter.
(In its more extreme forms, politics also becomes distinctly Cult-like).

Perhaps the real Bogey Man is the Cult:
- And that both religion and politics are matters that should be handled with extreme caution!
(It is difficult to imagine how religion could be "banned" - much less politics?)

Jack.

28

Did You Take Your "Ministry" Seriously?

by minimus in

jw
friends

since all jehovah's witnesses are "ministers" and are to act like "watchmen" so as to not be bloodguilty before jehovah god, would you say that you, personally were a fine zealous preacher?

did you make sure that you accurately kept your house-to-house records up to date?

did you make sure you were back in a timely fashion once you placed literature?

Reefton Jack

There was a time when I did take it seriously.

However, you can only deceive people for so long; and it got harder and harder to do.

Jack.

32

Did You Like Your Congregation?

by minimus in

jw
friends

the hall i was in the last few years was not a bad place.

most of the people were middle class, some had college educations (like the po and his wife); they generally weren't over critical.

of course there were a few elders and publishers that were pains but for the most part the people in that hall were pretty decent.

Reefton Jack

I was in a total of ten different congregations during my time with the Borg.
Most I thought were all-right; at least as "all-right" as anything connected with the WTS could be!

However, for me, there seemed to be a thin patch in the mid-1980s:
- I recall in particular the Christchurch South West Congregation.
- diamaondblue1974's post accurately describes the Elders and Ministerial Servants in that congregation, also.
- All I could add to diamondblue1974's post is that I am not sure if the "plastic"
was of the Thermoplastic (i.e. re-mouldable) or the Thermo-hardening (i.e. strictly a "Oncer") type material!

Jack.

42

good in jehovah's witnesses

by John Doe in

jw
friends

i thought it might be nice to see some positive things mentioned about jw's.

now, i know mentioning these things may be hard given the experiences here, but i've yet to find a group of people who don't have something positive about them.

if there weren't something positive, no one would ever join.

Reefton Jack

For sure - not everyone of the planet's 6 billion-odd people are prepared to accept you unconditionally.
However, they are about; contrary to the propganda we were fed while under the influence of the borg.

But with the JWs - not ONE of them is prepared to accept a person unconditionally.

That could be all-right by some, I guess; but it sure as anything you like not all-right by me!

Jack.

42

good in jehovah's witnesses

by John Doe in

jw
friends

i thought it might be nice to see some positive things mentioned about jw's.

now, i know mentioning these things may be hard given the experiences here, but i've yet to find a group of people who don't have something positive about them.

if there weren't something positive, no one would ever join.

Reefton Jack

I tend to agree more with Ozziepost than neverendingjourney on this one:
- Even the very best of them (JWs) would still shun all of us here like we were the proverbial country lavatory!
(An example of this that I am unlikely to either forget or forgive is my son's funeral the other year).

By contrast, recently I spent some time in renewing old acquaintances from over 35 years ago - which for me was just before the Watchtower Madness took hold completely.
While someone did mention that a few had wondered "how I could have got sucked in with that lot" (and well they might ask!), all were still happy enough to have me as a friend.

As for in "The Organisation"
- well, there I met some of the nastiest types imaginable.
(My first introduction to domestic violence was "In the Truth" - I will never forget that, either).

- as regards the others, their goodness is strictly conditional; and it is rather scary that they can turn that on and off like a light switch.

Jack.

24

Is Swearing Allowed???

by mtsgrad in

jw
friends

as a good witness i only swore once (aloud) in my 30 year theocratic career (at work).

have any members here started $&^%ing since leaving the borg?.

a fairly new publisher once said in a talk "when a householder tells you to f%$ off".

Reefton Jack

I have to reply to this one!
(I am presently getting ready to fly out at 5:15 this afternoon, for another 16 day roster at work).
- Only moments ago, I was just telling my wife how, while on site, a cetain expletive becomes an essential part of ones vocabulary.
This feeling is so strong, that I almost slipped one into the email I was writing to some people at work.

Contrary to what the Borg used to say, having a good swear when things go wrong DOES release tension.
A corollary to this is that when working in Papua New Guinea, things frequently do go wrong
- therefore, a certain four letter word that rhymes with "truck" is frequently heard!

10

Getting biblically educated while going door to door.

by R.F. in

i now recall that i've had an unusual amount of run ins with pastors, preachers, etc, when going door to door.

when talking to others in the congregation they said they hadn't encountered the volume of these these guys as i had.

the interesting thing is that i ran into them while working alone.

Reefton Jack

Interesting - in my time with the Borg, ministers of religion were generally reluctant to speak to the JWs at all.
(One Baptist minister, in fact, could never wait to get rid of us fast enough).

This was explained to me as being the result of their previously having (to quote) "tried arguing with the brothers, but usually coming off second best." (end of quote).

It would seem that at one point, at least, the dubs were better at arguing than most they encountered?

(Or maybe it was a legacy of Rutherford's "Tearing Down of False Religion", as he called it:
- delivered by someone whose approach closely resembled that of "Screaming Skull";
- who usually gave the impression at least of being slightly deranged!
- and whom you would no more want to carry out a conversation with, than you would with a wild animal locked in a cage!)

Whatever, I can only ever recall one minister of religion who was in any way interested in having much of a conversation with me.